AEFW images

[Marc]

Acropora Eating Flatworms: I finally got my own collection of them, so I can put some on my I.D. page.

My A. valida looked pretty bad over the past week, and I thought it was an alkalinity issue. Turns out I was wrong.

Here is is, back on June 13, looking happy:


And then again, on July 28th, super close up:


Several people informed me early this morning that they are AEFW. Not really sure, I pulled the coral out of my tank, and blasted it in a while bowl of water (.25g perhaps) with 4 drops of Lugol's Solution. Here's what I found.



Some were large, like the one above, and many were very tiny. They are virtually invisible to the naked eye when studying a coral. A few more pictures to give you some perspective.











And finally, my little coral. It was a mere twig last September, and finally it is something I can hold in my hand. The question is will it survive... I blasted it off repeatedly, and redipped it in new bowls of iodine three times. When I put it back in the tank, the flow caused many of the now-white flatworms to blow around, only to land elsewhere. Now the rest of my corals can be part of the party too. :rolleye1: My Copperband Butterfly ate a few.



I seriously doubt I'll treat my corals in a separate system. Humm.

Ouch...

...Other than taking the corals out and dipping them in iodine baths, what IS the treatment?


Good luck!

Brian,
The only treatment that will work is a 4 week QT of levamisone (sp?). Most people end up loosing a few corals in the process, but at least they don't have any AEFWs left.

Marc,
Have you looked into the Christmas Wrasses? The one that I got seems to have helped with my FWs (not sure if I have AEFWs, but I suspect that I might).

[Matt]

These are so much worse than red bugs. I had these in my 100g SPS tank last year and was able to successfully beat them w/regular Iodine baths. Yes the Lugol baths can be very harsh on the coral as well but I suppose it is better than losing a tank full of Acropora.

Arghhh! An SPS keeper's nightmare. The STD of acros.

Such a shame it had to happen to such a beautiful piece.

Hopefully, that's the only colony that had it.

Marc, can you tell us where you originally got this frag from. No names need to be mentioned but was it from an LFS, another hobbyist, online vendor?

I'm always so weary of putting frags in my tank from other systems unless I know for sure they are AEFW free.

I know it's a bit controversial, but does anyone do any prophylactic dips on incoming specimens in qt?

I dip every new piece in interceptor and occasionally if I dont know the source at all, a 1 minute RO bath. I have seen it kill flatworms. Though a lugols bath would be less stressful

[Rick]

Now that sucks.

Those things scare the crap out of me...

Hang in there Marc it's going to be a tough road ahead...

[Marc]

This is my Tyree frag that I've had 1.5 years. Odds are they came in on something else. I don't know when they arrived or how they arrived, nor how long they may have been sitting in my tank.

I'm going to be doing a lot of reading on this topic now, and try to figure out what they prefer to hang out upon. One post indicated they like millepora too. None of my millis give me any indication that they are affected. I did lose a milli last month, but it was most definitely RTN.

[Matt]

This is my Tyree frag that I've had 1.5 years. Odds are they came in on something else. I don't know when they arrived or how they arrived, nor how long they may have been sitting in my tank.

I'm going to be doing a lot of reading on this topic now, and try to figure out what they prefer to hang out upon. One post indicated they like millepora too. None of my millis give me any indication that they are affected. I did lose a milli last month, but it was most definitely RTN.

Keep an extra close eye on your Acro's that appear to have STN at the base. Very often, they will have the appearance of STN when in reality those FW's are just slowly working their way up the colony.

[Marc]

Thanks Matt. I'll do that.

[Servo]

Those darn things have a specific affinity to both Valida and Milli's. Once they are finished they will begin to ravage your tank. Please collect some and mail them to Borneman. He will reimburse you for the shipping I believe.

There are many different antecdotal evidence for fighting these things. Prophylactic betadine is really cheap. Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure (TMPCC) and Levamisole is the way that most people have been doing it. The problem is, if you don't get them out and treat them you will lose every acro that you have over time. Don't let them run their course.


Praziquantel IMO will likely be the best in tank treatment options based upon human studies for Trematode/Nematode and other Fluke infections. The problem is that no one has studdied the right concentrations to kill the worms


Read and post in this thread, there are great replys. Waiting on Matt to do some testing.


Let me know if you need any betadine.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=858834

[Marc]

Thanks Ryan. As you may know, I did lose a milli a month ago, even after it was fragged it continued to die even divided up in the reef and prop sections.

I had two other frags that were RTNing, so I did the iodine and turkey baster test, and no flatworms whatsoever. Relieved and confused...

[kwl1763]

These scare the crap out of me also. Red bugs I can deal with. These are bad dudes though!

[Servo]

Thanks Ryan. As you may know, I did lose a milli a month ago, even after it was fragged it continued to die even divided up in the reef and prop sections.

I had two other frags that were RTNing, so I did the iodine and turkey baster test, and no flatworms whatsoever. Relieved and confused...

Don't settle for a false since of security. THe general consensus is to quarantine for at least 2 months.

When was the last sps colony put into the tank? Who did you get it from. (I don't really care, rhetorically speaking, I will not get any more colonies. ONLY frags from well established systems without new corals for > 3 months) Talk about paranoid! I don't EVER want these things. THey are in plague proportions and something NEEDS to be done.

Maybe the store that you got if from can contact the vendor/distributor to see if they are sending out infected colonies. Was the last SPS coral aquacultured or wild caught?

See my rant and rave from the importance of epidemiology in infections disease from the RC post. I will not repeat it here.

[Marc]

I've had stuff coming in from 4 different sources in the past month, so I really don't have a source to point to. Unfortunately.

[Servo]

Do you need any Betadine?

[Marc]

No, I bought a bottle at Walmart. And they have a generic bottle for $5. The official bottle was $12. At CVS, the same bottle was $18.

[Marc]

I treated the Tyree frag with the 25 minute bath in Betadine, as suggested above.

I did blow off some larger flatworms, but after the coral was removed and the water settled, I didn't find any of them. I wonder if they dissolved entirely.

Here are some eggs I scraped off the coral before putting it back in my tank.

[Servo]

Travis and others on RC with AEFW, have taken ALL of their Acros OOTT for treatment. Did you consider or try this? Are you just going to wait to see what happens and if another colony starts to look sick treat it.

The gestation period is thought to be around 1 month. So if you have any lingering eggs around, you will likely find that another coral will become sick in September. I would keep a close eye on your Milli's. If you get through this with only MAYBE losing that Valida, you are in GREAT shape.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Ryan

[Marc]

Here is the Tyree frag picture I promised. It looks nothing like it did, but it seems to still be alive.

Marc, will you post a picture of that one that I saw in the tupperware container over at your house? Man, that thing was REDICULOUSLY huge! I have a disbeliever that flatworms get that big and want to show them if you got a pic of it.

Kris

[Marc]

I already did. Here you go: http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=22692

[janakaybravo]

Tell me if I understand this right. If one of your acros is dying out at the base (turning white) on one side but is okay on the other side, could this be a sign of the aefw? I can't see them if they are there, but I've lost a few acro frags lately, but this coral I'm talking about is a colony I added to my tank 4-5 months ago. It started dying like that from day one but it's so huge that half of it is still beautiful. The other half is not dead, but the base of it is turning white on that side and the tips have algae growing on them. Would it be a good idea to prophylactically treat the coral in Lugol's or is qt the only solution? Would the dip help me diagnose it if the flatworms are there?

Kay

[Marc]

Kay, you want to pull the coral out of your tank, put it in a white bowl full of tank water, and add a few drops of Lugol's Solution. Using a turkey baster, squeeze blast after blast at the coral to see if any flatworms blow off, like the ones you've seen in this thread. If you don't see any, it isn't AEFW and possibly just regular STN (slow tissue neucrosis).

STN happens for no obvious reasons, as does RTN (rapid tissue neucrosis). Sometimes a coral just goes up in smoke for no apparent reason. This test just helps establish if it was AEFW or not.

[Marc]

A couple more pictures. Most of the purple is gone, but you see hints of it here and there near the tips.

[kwl1763]

Well at least the poylps are partially out again. That's a good sign.

[Marc]

I soaked the Tyree in Betadine solution again today, and about 50 AEFW came flying off. I was shocked, because I really thought the coral was fine.

Another Tri-color and the A. secale were tested and bathed today. Looks like I'm going to have a major project on my hands after I get back from MACNA.

In the meantime, I'm building a page about it to help others.
http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html

does flatworm exit not work on these?

[Matt]

does flatworm exit not work on these?

It does not.

[Marc]

I found a few pests on a frag in my prop section tonight.

What piece were those found on?

[Marc]

That was on a frag I got from Peterlin. Let me clarify. He bought a coral, and gave me a frag of it that day before he went home. He told me it was an AEFW magnet, so I put it in the prop section hoping it would be safe down there.

Seems the lil' guys smelled it from up top and traveled down there.

Kind of like a deer feeder! Maybe using bait coral is the answer to everyone's AEFW problems.

marc, im sure with all the reading you have done in your years you have heard about the nudibranchs that eat FW.. Have you done any research into that subject? I was also pondering whether or not acro crabs will keep these parasites off our SPS. What do you think?

[Matt]

marc, im sure with all the reading you have done in your years you have heard about the nudibranchs that eat FW.. Have you done any research into that subject? I was also pondering whether or not acro crabs will keep these parasites off our SPS. What do you think?

I'm not going to pretend to be Marc but everything I have read online and heard at MACNA indicates no one knows for sure if Acro crabs eat them. I have not heard of Velvet Nudibranch's eating them either. I wouldn't think they would venture into an SPS colony for these FW's but who knows. Even if they did it would be difficult to keep them since most SPS tanks are very high flow which generally results in the death of these Nudibranchs. What will be interesting and difficult to find out is what eats these parasites in the ocean? These FW's have obviously adapted to be difficult to see in order to hide from predators so......that would be really nice to know. The problem is that these issues are not seen in nature as they are in our captive systems. I while back some people were considering certain types of Wrasses for control. The commonly named Yellow Coris Wrasse (really the improper name) might be a consideration as they have a prefernce for worms in their diet.

[Rick]

From what I heard about them at Macna. One that they seem to camouflage themselves to look like the acro they are on. And two they pretty much eat the zooxanthllae out of the acro. Just applying the things we know about predators and prey and that animal can become toxic by eating toxins. These would seem to be some kind of food source for some other animal. And knowing the habits of acro crabs and that they find their food living within their colony and how protective they can be about their colony. I certainly do not see how they can hurt not having them and it might be a possibility they do eat them. I know I personally am going to find as many as I can get.
Just a thought, but look at all of the acro crabs people have killed in their tanks in the last few years treating with interceptor for red bugs. In the same period that people have been killing off all of those acro crabs, all of sudden here comes this infestation of these acro eating flatworms.
Like I said just a thought, but I certainly will never kill off anymore acro crabs treating for redbugs.

[Matt]

Just a thought, but look at all of the acro crabs people have killed in their tanks in the last few years treating with interceptor for red bugs. In the same period that people have been killing off all of those acro crabs, all of sudden here comes this infestation of these acro eating flatworms.
Like I said just a thought, but I certainly will never kill off anymore acro crabs treating for redbugs.

Very good point. Where do you buy Acro crabs w/out having to buy a new Acro colony?

marc, im sure with all the reading you have done in your years you have heard about the nudibranchs that eat FW.. Have you done any research into that subject?

Hehe, here you go....
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=899108